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	<title>Comments on: Quake + X3D = 3D Web browser</title>
	<atom:link href="http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/</link>
	<description>Code, Berlin, design, poetry, information, travel, learning ...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: CpILL</title>
		<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-63608</link>
		<dc:creator>CpILL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-63608</guid>
		<description>Hey Mcfly, some links to some of these online quake worlds would be nice. Thanks for the heads up ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Mcfly, some links to some of these online quake worlds would be nice. Thanks for the heads up ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Mcfly</title>
		<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-63582</link>
		<dc:creator>Mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-63582</guid>
		<description>Its very easy to create a 3d world, then share it on your webpage.  Multiuser chat even.  Dynamic 3d with real lighting etc can look very good but its very heavy on the computer. With x3d, you can just burn textures, it still looks good..enough for today, and ...you can even embed a .flv video easily onto geometry and with ExitReality the flash interface is fully interactive within an x3d world. The Quake worlds in x3d I have seen look really good!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its very easy to create a 3d world, then share it on your webpage.  Multiuser chat even.  Dynamic 3d with real lighting etc can look very good but its very heavy on the computer. With x3d, you can just burn textures, it still looks good..enough for today, and &#8230;you can even embed a .flv video easily onto geometry and with ExitReality the flash interface is fully interactive within an x3d world. The Quake worlds in x3d I have seen look really good!</p>
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		<title>By: All work &#38; play in the new social age</title>
		<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-62807</link>
		<dc:creator>All work &#38; play in the new social age</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-62807</guid>
		<description>[...] quite embryonic. These 3D worlds are quite crude, which is a disappointment for me. Especially when there are much better alternative 3D engines out there, ones that are both tried &#38; tested, as we...: “The Quake 3 engine source code has been made open source for a long time now. Its a far [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] quite embryonic. These 3D worlds are quite crude, which is a disappointment for me. Especially when there are much better alternative 3D engines out there, ones that are both tried &amp; tested, as we&#8230;: “The Quake 3 engine source code has been made open source for a long time now. Its a far [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Linden Labs don't want to share at Too much information</title>
		<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-62161</link>
		<dc:creator>Linden Labs don't want to share at Too much information</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-62161</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ll bet she doesn&#8217;t, it would completely destroy Linden Labs thats for sure. Its like having one server for webpages controlled by one company that makes a lot of money off it. The bigger the internet become the better it became. This furthers to strengthen the idea of a 3D web platfrom. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ll bet she doesn&#8217;t, it would completely destroy Linden Labs thats for sure. Its like having one server for webpages controlled by one company that makes a lot of money off it. The bigger the internet become the better it became. This furthers to strengthen the idea of a 3D web platfrom. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SecondLife 3D Quake Client at Too much information</title>
		<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-61993</link>
		<dc:creator>SecondLife 3D Quake Client at Too much information</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 11:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-61993</guid>
		<description>[...] furthering my recent idea to use the Quake3 Engine as a 3D web browser client, I just read an article that talks about the SecondLife client being opened up as opensource [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] furthering my recent idea to use the Quake3 Engine as a 3D web browser client, I just read an article that talks about the SecondLife client being opened up as opensource [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Achim Bode &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Second Life and Quake GUDs</title>
		<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-61542</link>
		<dc:creator>Achim Bode &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Second Life and Quake GUDs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-61542</guid>
		<description>[...] Source alternatives for a 3D world My friend Alex B. Whillas recently came up with an interesting idea when we went to the Transmediale festival in Berlin and were taking part in a very interesting [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Source alternatives for a 3D world My friend Alex B. Whillas recently came up with an interesting idea when we went to the Transmediale festival in Berlin and were taking part in a very interesting [...]</p>
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		<title>By: CpILL</title>
		<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-60987</link>
		<dc:creator>CpILL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-60987</guid>
		<description>Yes, I defiantly think there will have to be a lot of work on the server side. Quake can operate as a client but the server is another ball park. I guess to begin with simple compressing of the XML files can be achieved with an Apache mod already.

Once the models are loaded then its just a matter of transmitting coordinates of movements and events. The level of detail would of course be up to the client software and the hardware available to it. It can't be that difficult as there have been online deathmatch servers since Q1.

I think that the first 3D browser would become as much of a success as the first graphical HTML browser was (i.e. Netscape) for the same reasons: there is no other and its cool.

The only draw back I see is that 3D content is harder to produce than Text   2D images. It requires special tools for content authoring, talented people to make a few sites that get the whole thing kick started and creative teams to do it well. I guess back in the early 1990s HTML content wasn't SO fantastic ether.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I defiantly think there will have to be a lot of work on the server side. Quake can operate as a client but the server is another ball park. I guess to begin with simple compressing of the XML files can be achieved with an Apache mod already.</p>
<p>Once the models are loaded then its just a matter of transmitting coordinates of movements and events. The level of detail would of course be up to the client software and the hardware available to it. It can&#8217;t be that difficult as there have been online deathmatch servers since Q1.</p>
<p>I think that the first 3D browser would become as much of a success as the first graphical HTML browser was (i.e. Netscape) for the same reasons: there is no other and its cool.</p>
<p>The only draw back I see is that 3D content is harder to produce than Text   2D images. It requires special tools for content authoring, talented people to make a few sites that get the whole thing kick started and creative teams to do it well. I guess back in the early 1990s HTML content wasn&#8217;t SO fantastic ether.</p>
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		<title>By: cliffordb hightower</title>
		<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-60945</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffordb hightower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-60945</guid>
		<description>The metaverse is a concept taken from the book Snowcrash written in the early nineties.  I forget the author's name (Neil something...), but he predicted that there would be this all encompassing 3D virtual environment where people worked, played, and sometimes fought called the metaverse.  What is signifigant is that Neil made his prediction in the early 90ies and his writtings heavily influenced how Second Life and other 3D MUVE's (Multi User Virtual Environments) were engineered.  

X3D may be the HTML of the future, but until I see X3D browsers reach the performance level of Quake 3 or even Quake 2 I am skeptical.  Even today in our hi-bandwidth world XML wrapped data tends to hog bandwidth.  Applications processing data in real time, even with quad processors and graphic card arrays I believe will fail to reach that near reality looking world that would become the metaverse if they are processing data from a bloated pipe.  Quake 3 and the Unreal Tournament engines are able to reach their peformance levels because the maps are all pre-compiled and the data is streamed with very little meta data and often in a binary format.  Maybe X3D would work if data is transmitted with a binary serializer to take the bloat out of the data pipe.  Maybe large chunks of static X3D worlds/display areas could be compiled down to the bit level before transmission to the end clients so objects load and display faster.   I believe there is already work being done on this, so maybe things aren't that far off.  If this would happen I think X3D would fly.


Even with the above other software engineers will take different approaches and create different products.  HTML became a standard because of a set of unique circumstances that I'm not sure exist in the 3D virtual world market.  I will tell you this, having one standard would be great and I'm all for it.  I'm not anti-X3D at all, I'm just not at the point were I see it as the contender for the global standard of the 3D web yet.  It would be nice if it became that, but I don't think this can be forced.  Adoption of X3D at this point is slow, until that changes all bets are off.


This is my opinion only, which is semi informed I guess.  Take it or leave it :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The metaverse is a concept taken from the book Snowcrash written in the early nineties.  I forget the author&#8217;s name (Neil something&#8230;), but he predicted that there would be this all encompassing 3D virtual environment where people worked, played, and sometimes fought called the metaverse.  What is signifigant is that Neil made his prediction in the early 90ies and his writtings heavily influenced how Second Life and other 3D MUVE&#8217;s (Multi User Virtual Environments) were engineered.  </p>
<p>X3D may be the HTML of the future, but until I see X3D browsers reach the performance level of Quake 3 or even Quake 2 I am skeptical.  Even today in our hi-bandwidth world XML wrapped data tends to hog bandwidth.  Applications processing data in real time, even with quad processors and graphic card arrays I believe will fail to reach that near reality looking world that would become the metaverse if they are processing data from a bloated pipe.  Quake 3 and the Unreal Tournament engines are able to reach their peformance levels because the maps are all pre-compiled and the data is streamed with very little meta data and often in a binary format.  Maybe X3D would work if data is transmitted with a binary serializer to take the bloat out of the data pipe.  Maybe large chunks of static X3D worlds/display areas could be compiled down to the bit level before transmission to the end clients so objects load and display faster.   I believe there is already work being done on this, so maybe things aren&#8217;t that far off.  If this would happen I think X3D would fly.</p>
<p>Even with the above other software engineers will take different approaches and create different products.  HTML became a standard because of a set of unique circumstances that I&#8217;m not sure exist in the 3D virtual world market.  I will tell you this, having one standard would be great and I&#8217;m all for it.  I&#8217;m not anti-X3D at all, I&#8217;m just not at the point were I see it as the contender for the global standard of the 3D web yet.  It would be nice if it became that, but I don&#8217;t think this can be forced.  Adoption of X3D at this point is slow, until that changes all bets are off.</p>
<p>This is my opinion only, which is semi informed I guess.  Take it or leave it :)</p>
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		<title>By: CpILL</title>
		<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-60880</link>
		<dc:creator>CpILL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-60880</guid>
		<description>Taran: I'm only interested in the 17% that are online, which is still a couple of million people. Of those, from the Google analytic data on one of my high volume sites aimed at 'average' people (i.e. non-techies): 81.37% are on Cable/DSL, 7.35% Dial-up and, 7.09% 'Corporate' (Cable or faster). Broadband is here baby! 

(besides, you could turn off 'textures', reduce models polygon complexity etc to reduce bandwidth requirements). Back to the point...

Cliffordb: When your talking about 'different needs for different groups', HTML tackles this problem and in a similar way X3D will do the same. What I'm really saying in this post is that X3D will replace HTML in the '3D Web', so it will be open to plugins like FLV steaming, maybe even embedded Flash in X3D, so surfaces that are fully interactive Flash!

As for the interactivity, avatars etc thats an open question. I guess that would be up to the 'web developers' like it is on web forums today (i.e. weather you can see the other people currently logged in, send them a message, see avatars from other who have posted etc).

I'm not sure what you are talking about with this 'metaverse' business...? Please elaborate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taran: I&#8217;m only interested in the 17% that are online, which is still a couple of million people. Of those, from the Google analytic data on one of my high volume sites aimed at &#8216;average&#8217; people (i.e. non-techies): 81.37% are on Cable/DSL, 7.35% Dial-up and, 7.09% &#8216;Corporate&#8217; (Cable or faster). Broadband is here baby! </p>
<p>(besides, you could turn off &#8216;textures&#8217;, reduce models polygon complexity etc to reduce bandwidth requirements). Back to the point&#8230;</p>
<p>Cliffordb: When your talking about &#8216;different needs for different groups&#8217;, HTML tackles this problem and in a similar way X3D will do the same. What I&#8217;m really saying in this post is that X3D will replace HTML in the &#8216;3D Web&#8217;, so it will be open to plugins like FLV steaming, maybe even embedded Flash in X3D, so surfaces that are fully interactive Flash!</p>
<p>As for the interactivity, avatars etc thats an open question. I guess that would be up to the &#8216;web developers&#8217; like it is on web forums today (i.e. weather you can see the other people currently logged in, send them a message, see avatars from other who have posted etc).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what you are talking about with this &#8216;metaverse&#8217; business&#8230;? Please elaborate.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliffordb Hightower</title>
		<link>http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-60877</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliffordb Hightower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 02:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.tsd.net.au/cpill/2007/02/08/quake-x3d-3d-web-browser/#comment-60877</guid>
		<description>Great post.  Other alternatives include the torc engine, some of my coworkers are playing around with that.  Where I see a problem is that there are different needs by different groups and I don't see a one size fits all approach working.  I love the concept of a metaverse, but I fear that what we will end up with because Second Life is poorly implimented (though I give them great props for taking the metaverse concept to the mainstream...and they did a much better job then I could have ever done) we will see the market fragment, with multiple products competing with each other.  I as an academic tech guy don't really need to have avatars that have the ability to have virtual sex...a fury doesn't need to have flv video streaming like I need.  Will one platform work?  It could...but I'm skeptical.  There are a lot of needs to be wrapped into one box.  It is a very exiting time though and I'm glad I'm involved with whatever comes of these early experiments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  Other alternatives include the torc engine, some of my coworkers are playing around with that.  Where I see a problem is that there are different needs by different groups and I don&#8217;t see a one size fits all approach working.  I love the concept of a metaverse, but I fear that what we will end up with because Second Life is poorly implimented (though I give them great props for taking the metaverse concept to the mainstream&#8230;and they did a much better job then I could have ever done) we will see the market fragment, with multiple products competing with each other.  I as an academic tech guy don&#8217;t really need to have avatars that have the ability to have virtual sex&#8230;a fury doesn&#8217;t need to have flv video streaming like I need.  Will one platform work?  It could&#8230;but I&#8217;m skeptical.  There are a lot of needs to be wrapped into one box.  It is a very exiting time though and I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;m involved with whatever comes of these early experiments.</p>
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